Immunity is more effective than medical treatment and vaccines!
Immunity is more effective than medical treatment and vaccines!
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Basics.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Dr. hope a healthy discussion happens on this subject.
Now it has seriously started affecting the economy and consequential effect can be very serious
You can catch your nose front or from behind.
I suggest that everyone that wants to follow that route go ahead and lock yourself up together.
A right article at ghe right time. Do we have experts advising the Govt or we are simply following what the US ++ are doing ? Has our thinking n analysing capacity gone to the dogs ?
Dr. Ikarus Isteshan as we discussed
?
In a way, it maybe right. However, it’s a pandemic and we’ve to have more data for this to make sense.
Epidemiologist worldwide agree to this – even Dr Jaiprakash suggested the same for India but for India the issue remains how do you segregate more prone from less prone considering we have joint family systems. Moreover, how will the segregation be done in rural sector. Though antibody tests can succeed but we are far from that yet.
Michael McGlothlin why do you think people want your suggestions?
The big question is no doubt, who is willing to sacrifice or sacrifice his family for the sake of autoimmunity in the world?
I really see the trend of India aping the US. First was the lock down, then the RBI rate cuts, then the stimulus. A lot seems like we don’t have the competence to come up with better solutions.
The issue with herd immunity being so many gets infected and we really dont know who will develop complications from the virus and who will not. its just a thoery about the vulnerable people because your pre existing conditions ranges from pneumonia u got as an infant to obesity. So, the segregation is not practical. Also we are seeing so many cases of young people or people with no preexisting conditions develpping severe symptoms or sometimes dying. UK initially went through this approach but they realized its a mistake because in the process of achieving herd immunity thousands of lives will be lost.
Had anyone discussed same with our Superior Medical Authority ?
Such a bogus idea and exploitation of science. United Kingdom in its early phases did this. They had faith in herd immunity and look at the condition in the UK now. The man who was taking about it, got it, received the blessing of NHS, also because he is the privileged one. The lockdowns are extended to more weeks. Also, talking scientifically herd immunity exists when you have a vaccine or cure available.. else its just mass killing and racism. Racism in the sense that the healthy lives and the vulnerable ones are left to be responsible for themselves and in the best case left to die.
The discussion seems to be a medical discussion. How about preventing it in future? it seems corona is a result of contact with wild animals due to loss of their habitat and also wildlife trading
A step by step lifting of lockdown can be done in cities in the country where covid-19 spread is low, beginning with service industries and jobs which cannot be worked from home. Maybe starting with alternate days. A South Korean like mobile app can be developed to show red areas which were traveled by covid victims in the last 2-5 days prior to diagnosis so people can avoid those spots.
Either way, a one-size fits all lockdown approach may slow the economy beyond what is expected and perhaps not even stop the spread of the virus.
Viral Sheth (We Serve Quality) our politicians are the medical experts today!
Sergio Scarpim you do not need to sacrifice anything. Your immune system will protect you automatically!
That will be a costly bet, but if I were Thanos, I would have agreed and vouched for it.
I am not an expert in Epidemiological sciences so would like to refrain from blasting my ignorance over here but the below comment was from an epidemiologist working with BMC and as I know him, he is one of the best in business especially with the numbers.
“Herd immunity requires the knowledge of exact proportion of the herd among the population, which needs to have acquired immunity
This can be calculated by knowing R0 (subscript) and Intergeneration Time
We still don’t have any idea regarding that
To generate a herd, we need to have almost zero mortality among the herd
In Polio, we could easily generate such herds by vaccinating with a live attenuated virus which was rendered harmless, retaining its ability to transmit as usual
This experiment was initially attempted by UK against Covid-19, but we all know the outcome of trying it without adequate insight”.
It is not just the one approach to fit all, it is the collateral damage that lockdown is causing, which will be worse than what COVID-19 pandemic by itself could.
You are aware that the lockdown is extended now by almost three more weeks.
If the state governments have a plan for how they plan to lift the lockdown they should share it. They are looking at the COVID-19 positive counts which can increase again between now and May 3, 2020. Will they extend the lockdown again at that time?
Ruling politicians and bureaucrats are not suffering. Already there is a shortage of essentials.
Sidharth Mehta we only need to identify and segregate the people with acute respiratory distress and be sure they don’t have COVID-19. That determination is far easier than locking up 1.3 billion people. Instead of planning a third lockdown (I won’t be surprised if it is done) state governments should focus on identifying possibly infected and those vulnerable and make simple strategies. If we can impose lockdown on 1.3 billion people for 3 weeks, India has the capability to segregate maybe a few million for their own safety.
Manish Deshpande by imposing a lockdown, we will never be able to get this data ?
The hypothesis might just be proven now, with the bandra incident.
Giridhar Sir, people coming via airports were asked to quarantine way early in India – was it really followed, not much. Since incubation period for this disease is 12-14 days, person is not going to feel anything as well. Today, 30% of the Indian people have influence like symptoms, who will we segregate & who can go. Determining hotspots took us 3 weeks.
S N Reddy (Surya) Yarrabothula who is ‘we’? You only see what the media chooses to show you. This is highly distorted
Only hoping not to be among the dead. Only hoping that someone else could die instead of me. Above all those that want to lift the lockdown. Unfortunately it’s no so. So better medical treatment and vaccines.
Calculate: sleep deprivation + processed food + stress + lack of fitness + lack of sunshine = lack of immunity
The problem is that’s a BIG bet and if he’s wrong the damage could be immense. That is, we don’t KNOW, so he’s pretty ballsy to just assert it straight out. For my part, I freely admit, I don’t know for sure. I’m hoping we’ve done roughly the right thing to minimize risk under uncertainty. Which does not mean we’ve done the right thing, once all the facts are in. It means we survived both the virus and our own actions. I hope that’s not asking too much!
This theory may be based on Darwin’s theory of survival of the fittest. In the end we will say that those who have have higher immunities have either not infected or mildly infected but got cured. The remaining got extinct from the world or survived with difficulties for the rest of the life.
Joshua Stern hard to have your cake and eat it too ?
It was exactly what I was saying., Was not a mistake. you wrote :”no matter how many innocent people die because of hunger during the Lockdown which has crippled their livelihoods?”. Probably forgetting how many people is dying and dead starving every year in the world. So I can understand the drama of whom cannot work cause COVID-19. there are many different economical support around. The alternative of weird immunity seems to be an absurd way to resolve economical issue in a super capitalistic society.
Anyway English is only one of the 6 languages I speak, and sorry not to be a linguist !!!!!!
Basics.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Dr. hope a healthy discussion happens on this subject.
Now it has seriously started affecting the economy and consequential effect can be very serious
You can catch your nose front or from behind.
I suggest that everyone that wants to follow that route go ahead and lock yourself up together.
A right article at ghe right time. Do we have experts advising the Govt or we are simply following what the US ++ are doing ? Has our thinking n analysing capacity gone to the dogs ?
Dr. Ikarus Isteshan as we discussed
?
In a way, it maybe right. However, it’s a pandemic and we’ve to have more data for this to make sense.
Epidemiologist worldwide agree to this – even Dr Jaiprakash suggested the same for India but for India the issue remains how do you segregate more prone from less prone considering we have joint family systems. Moreover, how will the segregation be done in rural sector. Though antibody tests can succeed but we are far from that yet.
Michael McGlothlin why do you think people want your suggestions?
The big question is no doubt, who is willing to sacrifice or sacrifice his family for the sake of autoimmunity in the world?
I really see the trend of India aping the US. First was the lock down, then the RBI rate cuts, then the stimulus. A lot seems like we don’t have the competence to come up with better solutions.
The issue with herd immunity being so many gets infected and we really dont know who will develop complications from the virus and who will not. its just a thoery about the vulnerable people because your pre existing conditions ranges from pneumonia u got as an infant to obesity. So, the segregation is not practical. Also we are seeing so many cases of young people or people with no preexisting conditions develpping severe symptoms or sometimes dying. UK initially went through this approach but they realized its a mistake because in the process of achieving herd immunity thousands of lives will be lost.
Had anyone discussed same with our Superior Medical Authority ?
Such a bogus idea and exploitation of science. United Kingdom in its early phases did this. They had faith in herd immunity and look at the condition in the UK now. The man who was taking about it, got it, received the blessing of NHS, also because he is the privileged one. The lockdowns are extended to more weeks. Also, talking scientifically herd immunity exists when you have a vaccine or cure available.. else its just mass killing and racism. Racism in the sense that the healthy lives and the vulnerable ones are left to be responsible for themselves and in the best case left to die.
The discussion seems to be a medical discussion. How about preventing it in future? it seems corona is a result of contact with wild animals due to loss of their habitat and also wildlife trading
A step by step lifting of lockdown can be done in cities in the country where covid-19 spread is low, beginning with service industries and jobs which cannot be worked from home. Maybe starting with alternate days. A South Korean like mobile app can be developed to show red areas which were traveled by covid victims in the last 2-5 days prior to diagnosis so people can avoid those spots.
Either way, a one-size fits all lockdown approach may slow the economy beyond what is expected and perhaps not even stop the spread of the virus.
Viral Sheth (We Serve Quality) our politicians are the medical experts today!
Sergio Scarpim you do not need to sacrifice anything. Your immune system will protect you automatically!
Monika Mondal I wish you were better informed! LinkedIn has space constraints. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ will provide more perspective!
That will be a costly bet, but if I were Thanos, I would have agreed and vouched for it.
I am not an expert in Epidemiological sciences so would like to refrain from blasting my ignorance over here but the below comment was from an epidemiologist working with BMC and as I know him, he is one of the best in business especially with the numbers.
“Herd immunity requires the knowledge of exact proportion of the herd among the population, which needs to have acquired immunity
This can be calculated by knowing R0 (subscript) and Intergeneration Time
We still don’t have any idea regarding that
To generate a herd, we need to have almost zero mortality among the herd
In Polio, we could easily generate such herds by vaccinating with a live attenuated virus which was rendered harmless, retaining its ability to transmit as usual
This experiment was initially attempted by UK against Covid-19, but we all know the outcome of trying it without adequate insight”.
It is not just the one approach to fit all, it is the collateral damage that lockdown is causing, which will be worse than what COVID-19 pandemic by itself could.
You are aware that the lockdown is extended now by almost three more weeks.
If the state governments have a plan for how they plan to lift the lockdown they should share it. They are looking at the COVID-19 positive counts which can increase again between now and May 3, 2020. Will they extend the lockdown again at that time?
Ruling politicians and bureaucrats are not suffering. Already there is a shortage of essentials.
Sidharth Mehta we only need to identify and segregate the people with acute respiratory distress and be sure they don’t have COVID-19. That determination is far easier than locking up 1.3 billion people. Instead of planning a third lockdown (I won’t be surprised if it is done) state governments should focus on identifying possibly infected and those vulnerable and make simple strategies. If we can impose lockdown on 1.3 billion people for 3 weeks, India has the capability to segregate maybe a few million for their own safety.
Pramod Gaikwad no, he is poorly informed. LinkedIn has space constraints. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ will provide more perspective!
Manish Deshpande by imposing a lockdown, we will never be able to get this data ?
The hypothesis might just be proven now, with the bandra incident.
Giridhar Sir, people coming via airports were asked to quarantine way early in India – was it really followed, not much. Since incubation period for this disease is 12-14 days, person is not going to feel anything as well. Today, 30% of the Indian people have influence like symptoms, who will we segregate & who can go. Determining hotspots took us 3 weeks.
S N Reddy (Surya) Yarrabothula who is ‘we’? You only see what the media chooses to show you. This is highly distorted
S N Reddy (Surya) Yarrabothula LinkedIn has space constraints. https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ will provide more perspective!
Only hoping not to be among the dead. Only hoping that someone else could die instead of me. Above all those that want to lift the lockdown. Unfortunately it’s no so. So better medical treatment and vaccines.
Calculate: sleep deprivation + processed food + stress + lack of fitness + lack of sunshine = lack of immunity
The problem is that’s a BIG bet and if he’s wrong the damage could be immense. That is, we don’t KNOW, so he’s pretty ballsy to just assert it straight out. For my part, I freely admit, I don’t know for sure. I’m hoping we’ve done roughly the right thing to minimize risk under uncertainty. Which does not mean we’ve done the right thing, once all the facts are in. It means we survived both the virus and our own actions. I hope that’s not asking too much!
This theory may be based on Darwin’s theory of survival of the fittest. In the end we will say that those who have have higher immunities have either not infected or mildly infected but got cured. The remaining got extinct from the world or survived with difficulties for the rest of the life.
Joshua Stern hard to have your cake and eat it too ?
Sir, you maybe right. However, such risks can’t be taken. What if, like the HIV virus, this Covid-19 attacks the human immune system as this article alleges.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective?utm_medium=email&utm_source=mailchimp&utm_campaign=enlz-scmp_global_impact&utm_content=20200413&MCUID=cd01bf26b7&MCCampaignID=842c5741a2&MCAccountID=3775521f5f542047246d9c827&tc=7
It was exactly what I was saying., Was not a mistake. you wrote :”no matter how many innocent people die because of hunger during the Lockdown which has crippled their livelihoods?”. Probably forgetting how many people is dying and dead starving every year in the world. So I can understand the drama of whom cannot work cause COVID-19. there are many different economical support around. The alternative of weird immunity seems to be an absurd way to resolve economical issue in a super capitalistic society.
Anyway English is only one of the 6 languages I speak, and sorry not to be a linguist !!!!!!
Dr Aniruddha Malpani
But you haven’t said anything about this fear…already pointed out by someone…..
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective?utm_medium=email&utm_source=mailchimp&utm_campaign=enlz-scmp_global_impact&utm_content=20200413&MCUID=cd01bf26b7&MCCampaignID=842c5741a2&MCAccountID=3775521f5f542047246d9c827&tc=7
Vincenzo Pascale that’s fine. The important thing is to make sure that what you speak makes sense ?